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Pangasius or not?


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#1 ferox

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 12:02 AM

Got these today and haven't a clue what they are, they were identified in the lfs only as 'Dwarf Pangaius' (sic). According to the shop, their supplier promises they won't grow any bigger than the 2" they are at present. Midwater swimming, fairly active and are shoaling with similar sized fish in the tank including tetras and Hyalobagrus flavus. Haven't seen them feed yet. Although not apparent from the flash photo they are pretty well transparent. Have googled them to death, no joy - help!!

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#2 medaka

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 10:12 PM

Hi :D

I don't think this a member of the Pangasiidae family.
It has the liking of being a member of the family Schilbeidae; possibly a new species which is at the moment going under the name of Psedeutropius species 1, but I would need a clearer picture to make sure..

PS: Sorry for the time it took for someone to answer; but, the CSG annual Weekend Convention ( & the beer was good ) finished last night, but some Scot Cat members including myself, stayed over another night and then went on a shop tour this afternoon.
It well may be that even Mr Scot Cat himself, has yet to arrive home, or if they are they are busy sorting out their new purchases.
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#3 ferox

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 12:14 AM

Thanks for the reply, hope the convention was as good as the beer!

I had suspected these might not actually be Pangasiids, Schilbeids was one of the possibilities that did briefly cross my mind. I've just found Pseudeutropius sp.1 on the web and that certainly looks very similar.

Attached is another couple of photos - like the last one they were quick snaps from a phone camera, but good enough to suggest that the barbels may be significantly longer than those of P. sp.1 in the photos on the planetcatfish site, although otherwise the fish looks very similar.

Drawing together two threads here, and I note you replied to my other query (thanks again), I have 3 of these in a 30" tank with 4 Hyalobagrus flavus, a small shoal of silver tip tetras (imminently for the chop) and a long-armed shrimp. All of these are active and don't appear to worry each other at all. (The H. flavus mentioned in the other thread are in a different tank, and I now believe their subdued behaviour was down to a water quality issue).

Getting these blighters to eat is proving to be a bit of a worry. They stick to midwater and rarely contact any surface so they won't come into contact with any food either floating or sunken, it must be drifting past their noses before they can get it. The barbels (which are about two thirds of the body length) lie back against the body as they swim around but are fanned out when they are stationary rather like a Hydra, and I can imagine in the wild they may live in shoals holding station in slow moving water (like Kryptopterus) waiting for maybe mosquito larvae passing by which are detected as they brush the barbels. With that in mind I've tried crumbled flake and catfish pellets, and various frozen food. I once saw one of them take a bit of food in and spit it out again. I was told they'd been in the shop for about 3 weeks before I got them so, assuming they were wild caught, it could be ages since they last ate and now living on borrowed time. Not a good time of year to get hold of live food either, although I may try to get some small Gammarus and Asellus from my pond and try those if all else fails. If you can suggest anything else I'd be grateful.

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#4 medaka

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 10:05 PM

Attached is another couple of photos - like the last one they were quick snaps from a phone camera, but good enough to suggest that the barbels may be significantly longer than those of P. sp.1 in the photos on the planetcatfish site, although otherwise the fish looks very similar.


Distinguishing species identities from just one trait (eg barbels length) from a cell phone photograph I am afraid, IMHO can not be used to positively identify a species of fish; sometimes it can be down to such things as Fin Ray count and have nothing to do with barbel length as the length of the barbels can vary from specimen to specimen for a variety of reasons.

(The H. flavus mentioned in the other thread are in a different tank, and I now believe their subdued behaviour was down to a water quality issue).


Always good to check water conditions first when anything looks awry.


Getting these blighters to eat is proving to be a bit of a worry.


Have you tried feeding frozen bloodworms just after lights out, when I kept these I used to feed them just before I retired for the evening, after some time of doing this they eventually started to feed about an hour before I went to bed.

Not a good time of year to get hold of live food either, although I may try to get some small Gammarus and Asellus from my pond and try those if all else fails. If you can suggest anything else I'd be grateful.


Have you tried to culture white worm or grindal worm?
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BTW could you please put your location into your profile as this makes it easier to answer any questions like.".where can I get a culture from"?
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#5 scotcat

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 10:03 PM

Hi ferox,

Looks like Pseudeutropius brachypopterus to me. Have a look at the mini factsheet and images.

It well may be that even Mr Scot Cat himself, has yet to arrive home, or if they are they are busy sorting out their new purchases.


Managed back on the 9.30 ferry Monday night after a really enjoyable weekend at the CSG Convention with too much beer and fish!!!
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#6 ferox

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 12:09 AM

Thanks for your detailed reply Medaka, and thanks Scotcat for your comments. I think between you you've nailed the genus, I am now going to have to study your photos of P. brachypopterus and the planetcatfish photos of P. species 1 to work out the species.

Medaka, I haven't managed to get any good photos of these yet, I will keep trying. Not easy as they do appear to be nocturnal, a possibility which stupidly hadn't crossed my mind. They spend the day hidden amongst vegetation but come out like a rocket the instant the lights go out and seem to feed quite readily on frozen bloodworm as well as small live Gammarus and Asellus(as do the Hyalobagrus they share the tank with). I'm hoping to find out if they will take dried foods too, since I spend a lot of time out of the country and whilst the OH is a dab hand with a pinch of flake I reckon she'd draw the line at chopping up frozen blocks of blood-coloured wormy type things. For the same reason it would be pointless for me to try culturing any type of live food, although I regularly use invertebrates from my pond (from where I also get all of my water), even in winter there's plenty to be had.

Incidentally the problem with the Hyalobagrus was actually due to velvet brought in with these fish, but raising the temperature to 30 alone seems to be clearing this up, I never like to use chemicals except as a last resort.

On your suggestion Medaka I have now updated my profile with my location.




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